tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post2529610389299998767..comments2024-03-27T04:46:33.198-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: "Half the Coins on the US Market are Looted, but Let's Ignore that, eh?"Paul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-75121807124493199282010-02-24T04:36:49.995-08:002010-02-24T04:36:49.995-08:00Lord, these people so remind me of British metal d...Lord, these people so remind me of British metal detectorists who call any estimate of the damage they do a lie.<br /><br />Here's a good plan. Ask one of these dealers who reckon other people tell lies what is THEIR estimate of the percentage of looted material there is in their unprovenanced stock. 40%, 30%.... or are they as near as dammit saints and only offload 2 looted coins in every ten to poor gullible churchgoing Chuck from Chattanooga?! <br /><br />That still adds up to quite a few. How many looted coins have YOU ever sold Mr B? <br /><br />(In your case, there's no need to lie)Marcus Preenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603874627751387853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-45117074548110382782010-02-24T03:36:32.107-08:002010-02-24T03:36:32.107-08:00So the conclusion is that the amt of coins in priv...So the conclusion is that the amt of coins in private hands is vastly superior to 700K-- and that there frankly is no data on how many are freshly (say post 1970) looted; but it's probably the majority. <br /><br />Stop collecting coins. There's enough around-- in old collections, etc, to keep scholarship (die studies and the like) going. New finds in digs, contextualized, secure hoards, or casual finds in ploughed fields-- go to museums-- where they can be studied too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-60420864336255034022010-02-24T03:21:15.357-08:002010-02-24T03:21:15.357-08:00Not all collectors are unable to follow the argume...Not all collectors are unable to follow the argument though. Robyn Ciurelli summarises the argument for the hard of hearing... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancientartifacts/message/53560 <i><b>"So.. If we use Tompa's figure of 700,000 unprovenanced coins in the US, and match it up with the estimated 350,000 known to be smuggled into the US from one dealer alone within a few weeks time, that means that half of the coins that Dave's pal Peter says is in US collectors' hands was freshly excavated and smuggled in. The 700,000 coin number came from Dave's own buddy [...], matched up with documented fact. If Dave Welsh wishes, I can lend him my calculator so he can do the math himself. I fail to see how Paul lied about anything".</b></i> <br /><br />I'd personally be wary of trusting a dealer in dugup coins with my calculator.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-8569032166013379482010-02-24T00:51:04.458-08:002010-02-24T00:51:04.458-08:00"A liar" eh?
Sophisticated people, these..."A liar" eh?<br />Sophisticated people, these.<br /><br />Frankly Mr B. I wouldn't worry about it. On one side we have a vast looting industry and on the other a vast US collecting community and in between we have loads of dealers supplying vast quantities of coins from sources they absolutely refuse to reveal!<br /><br />I think everyone knows exactly what's going on!<br /><br />Or maybe everyone's a liar?Marcus Preenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603874627751387853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-6522082214381647052010-02-24T00:18:16.301-08:002010-02-24T00:18:16.301-08:00http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancientartifacts/mes...http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancientartifacts/message/53557<br /><br />"If such an apology is not forthcoming, then I can presently - from what I now know - see no alternative to regarding Mr. Barford as standing revealed as being a liar. I had not previously imagined that to be the case, and would frankly be glad to learn that it is not.<br /><br />Mr. Barford is invited to further explain his actual reasons for what he wrote to the collecting community."<br />No apology is forthcoming because no-brain coin dealer has not actually read where the figures I quote came from. My"reasons" for writing what I did are that the figures show that there is something seriously wrong with the US market in dugup antiquities from other countries, something which of course the dealers' lobby would prefer to cover up by throwing out accusations of deceit. I guess it is all they have left.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.com