tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post3506139716595202326..comments2024-03-27T04:46:33.198-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: More Evidence of Serious Contamination of PAS database Paul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-19185476754772074122014-06-07T08:24:28.854-07:002014-06-07T08:24:28.854-07:00There's an unaskable question that's also ...There's an unaskable question that's also relevant to the accuracy of the PAS database David:<br /><br />What percentage of detectorists are honest in their dealings with farmers vis a vis finds agreements?<br /><br />Rather you than me to answer that but whatever percentage you choose then the remainder are likely to launder by location.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-3256173244909380752014-06-06T03:43:58.185-07:002014-06-06T03:43:58.185-07:00In addition, I can envisage some student archaeolo...In addition, I can envisage some student archaeologist finding a Roman artefact with a 'double-axe' motif in a British dig thinking 'ah yes, that motif appeared on British lamps too'. Hopefully, he would be corrected by his professor but the PAS needs to avoid the confusion in the first place.<br />David Knellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13488678409144873954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-72504618413631139152014-06-06T03:34:12.604-07:002014-06-06T03:34:12.604-07:00What I find particularly worrying about Saxby'...What I find particularly worrying about Saxby's Coins is that it patently demonstrates the willingness of someone selling artefacts to deliberately falsify information. He may not bother using the PAS to lend credence to his own artefacts himself, but it is not difficult to imagine that some other dealer would. A PAS record adds considerably to an artefact's financial value and the PAS is so clearly open to abuse.<br /><br />Quite apart from the PAS reflecting on the mother institution, its administrators really do need to be extra vigilant in being able to flag items which appear to be of foreign origin and clearly note them as such in the records. Yes, such items MAY have been found in the British archaeological record but researchers using the database need to be made aware of the increased possibility of contamination and treat the items accordingly.<br />David Knellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13488678409144873954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-36571951769359808762014-06-05T07:34:04.332-07:002014-06-05T07:34:04.332-07:00PAS IS part of the British Museum, and its descrip...PAS <b>IS</b> part of the British Museum, and its descriptions reflect on the mother institution.<br /><br />Describing something as what it ain't to get an easy sale is fraud, nothing less. <br /><br />There is a lot of this sort of thing openly going on in the antiquities trade.<br />Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-35223031282970804372014-06-05T06:47:10.346-07:002014-06-05T06:47:10.346-07:00"... PAS records for oil lamps (sorry David, ..."... PAS records for oil lamps (sorry David, force of habit, some Medieval ones worked on tallow)"<br /><br />Forgiven! Yup, many lamps of the Roman period also used fat as fuel in northern parts of the empire where olive oil was difficult to obtain. But they were a different form (typically open) to those which used oil. The prefix "oil" only becomes superfluous when describing the huge majority of lamps (typically enclosed by Hellenistic times) in the Mediterranean world.<br /><br />The lack of recognising (or at least recording) the lamps as foreign was indeed disturbing. Both of the lamps I mentioned scream their eastern origin. Taking the first example: the "two curlicues just behind the wick holder [isn't 'nozzle' a less clumsy term?]" are a debased provincial interpretation of the volutes on Italian archetypes and are an immediately distinctive feature of these Syro-Palestinian types - as indeed is also the "raised bow-tie shape moulding to either side of top of the main body ['shoulder' is the normal term]". The motif is known as 'double-axe' in the literature and not used on lamps outside the Levant. Apart from which, the whole form of both lamps scream their type and source anyway.<br /><br />I understand the person recording the find is not a specialist but they really do need to get entries checked by someone who is if the PAS database is meant to have any credibility as a scholarly resource. Then again, you already know my opinion of it as a scholarly resource.<br /><br />-------------<br /><br />Saxby's Coins is a case unto himself. Unrelated to the PAS database, he simply describes almost everything as "British Found" regardless of where it came from. If he ever got to put the Parthenon on eBay, he would advertise that as "British Found" too.<br />David Knellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13488678409144873954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-65657120870622876062014-06-04T12:51:40.727-07:002014-06-04T12:51:40.727-07:00This is exactly it, anybody can say what they like...This is exactly it, anybody can say what they like about "where" something was found. We need a way of checking this back to a landowner's signing off these artefacts. <br /><br />I've dealt with Saxby's before. Really disgusting inexactitude in description. <br /><br />Especially (I assume you put it in specially for me) the "European coin" of Sigmunt III Vasa King of Poland and all the rest, NOT "c. 1450" as Saxby would have it but 1623 as the date on it actually says.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/c-1450-A-D-British-Found-Medieval-Period-European-Hammered-Type-Silver-Coin-/141299557627?pt=UK_Coins_BritishHammered_RL&hash=item20e61c24fb<br /><br /><br />http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-B-C-British-Found-Late-Bronze-Age-Celtic-Bronze-Tri-Lobe-Socketed-Arrow-Head-/271505434671?pt=UK_Antiquities&hash=item3f36fc282f <br /><br />If that arrowhead was found in the UK, then it is yet more evidence of the degree to which planting of items from looted sites in southern Europe is going on - if real, it is a type well known from the steppes/Danube region, but not "Bronze Age" but later. <br /><br />But then, does anyone take this clown seriously? Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-43214619889123652582014-06-04T10:52:11.415-07:002014-06-04T10:52:11.415-07:00Maybe these are on the PAS database as well, or ma...Maybe these are on the PAS database as well, or maybe not as the dealer specialises in saying everything is 'British found'!<br /><br />http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/c-1450-A-D-British-Found-Medieval-Period-European-Hammered-Type-Silver-Coin-/141299557627?pt=UK_Coins_BritishHammered_RL&hash=item20e61c24fb<br /><br />http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-B-C-British-Found-Late-Bronze-Age-Celtic-Bronze-Tri-Lobe-Socketed-Arrow-Head-/271505434671?pt=UK_Antiquities&hash=item3f36fc282f<br /><br />Hoard coin from Britain?<br />http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284-A-D-British-Found-DIOCLETIAN-Roman-Bronze-Follis-Coin-Hoard-Coin-EF-grade-/271505567904?pt=UK_Coins_Ancient_RL&hash=item3f36fe30a0juhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09810245208400877445noreply@blogger.com