tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post4799159445721265252..comments2024-03-18T12:47:37.136-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: "Due Diligence" in Buying and Selling Antiquities What is it? Paul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-9709350383283482052015-06-10T09:09:41.948-07:002015-06-10T09:09:41.948-07:00"What you are saying is "can people not ..."What you are saying is "can people not be allowed to keep making money from items looted 40 or 50 years ago?" Is that OK"<br />well thats the bitter pill i was talking about,surely there would have to be some grandfathering before any register is set up.unfortunately your right that most dealers and some collectors as i remember from a discussion about this on the ancientartifacts yahoo group,are against the idea.<br />kyri.kyrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725342826698223232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-3936087855202386582015-06-09T20:30:57.902-07:002015-06-09T20:30:57.902-07:00What you are saying is "can people not be all...What you are saying is "can people not be allowed to keep making money from items looted 40 or 50 years ago?" Is that OK? Or should responsible dealers and collectors not be taking the stance that culture crime should never pay? Dealer Flogitoff has a choice when he is offered an artefact without papers, buy it and hope for the best or refuse to buy it. Nobody makes him buy goods without proper documentation (unless he's made a VERY unwise business choice and got involved with cut-throats). As for a register, it is not a bitter pill for anyone this side of the debate, I've been advocating it consistently for years. It is the dealers who have been adamantly against the idea. <br /><br />These "changes" you describe are happening in the AUCTION HOUSES. They are not happening in Grebkesh and Runn, or any of the "mom-and-pop businesses" represented by Tompa and Sayles. Do you think the auctioneers would be doing this if there was not the spectre of a Medici and Becchina archive out there? Tell me, if somebody comes to them with a vase, and they find a picture of it on a postulated public 'Medicibecchina' archive, what will happen to the pot, what will happen to the seller? Will the pot get repatriated or hidden, will the public get to hear about it? <br /><br />If the archives are released, do you not think the number of dodgy items on open sale will suddenly drop, and then apologists will say the market is 'cleaner than it was five years ago"? But of course that is only cosmetic cleanliness because the pots of dubious origin will still be in the hands of the sellers, just not paraded as openly. Let's keep the spotlight on the market if that is the only way to make dealers clean up their act. <br /><br /><br /> Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-46067764390981159912015-06-09T09:22:25.597-07:002015-06-09T09:22:25.597-07:00"there are and have been many dealers shiftin..."there are and have been many dealers shifting stuff from criminal diggers and smugglers onto the market without their business archives (if they even have such a thing) falling serendipitously into police hands"<br />this is true but in the 18 or so years that i have been collecting things have changed drastically especially over the last 5 years.last week i emailed christies about consigning a piece of greek armour from a world famous collection that i bought from a german auction house 8 years ago.the piece had been published in the late 80s.they emailed me back asking me to get in touch with the german auction house so that they can verify from whom the piece was bought in 1988 and whether the consignor produced any documentation about the piece.this would never have happened even 5 years ago.unfortunately the vast majority of antiquities on the market cannot be traced back to 1970 or even 1980,the documentation is just not there.are we really worried about looting that happened 40 or 50 years ago or should we be worrying about what is happening now.personally im all for some kind of antiquities register like the one david knell suggested were every piece has a kind of log book similar to cars with a photo and unique number,something like that would stop any fresh pieces hitting the market.it would be a hard pill to swallow ,for both sides of this debate but unless something drastic happens nothing will change.<br />kyri.kyrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725342826698223232noreply@blogger.com