tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post1497503050960753929..comments2024-03-27T04:46:33.198-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: A UK Artefact Hunter's Collection: "Stubble Hunter" comes cleanPaul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-83431012913009997842010-11-06T00:41:18.591-07:002010-11-06T00:41:18.591-07:00"As for 'taking our past' well on a w...<i> "As for 'taking our past' well on a wider front I think archeologists started that off with Tutankhamun and the Elgin marbles ! </i> <br /><br />Really? I suggest you consider where those items are, what role they fulfil. Then have a think about the Crosby Garrett helmet and the Sevso Treasure.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-82330451487185030052010-11-06T00:30:36.709-07:002010-11-06T00:30:36.709-07:00"Without exception we detect on ploughed fiel...<i>"Without exception we detect on ploughed fields"</i> well, that is, to use a technical term, nonsense. There are a lot of detectorists who detect grassland, up around Crosby Garrett for example. <br /><br /><i>"we detect on ploughed fields"</i> Well, also what the Americans call "systematic pedestrian survey" and we call systematic fieldwalking does too. It stands to reason that an army several thousand strong people going out in those fields looking for the same sites and taking away with or without records of greater or lesser accuracy and trustworthiness many of the diagnostic finds such surveys need to understand the results, is damaging the surface record. This is all the more galling when this is shown by projects incorporating responsible metal detectorists - such as the VASLE project. It seems the latter simply do not learn from such collaboration what the problem is. <br /><br />There are many techniques by which archaeology obtains information without digging down below the surface, there is a huge bibliography of "archaeology of the ploughsoil" which remains unknown to the UK artefact hunter information - should not the PAS be engaged in introducing them to it in their "outrteach"? <br /><br />Actually talking of "plough/ fertiliser damage crap" I had in mind another favourite but false argument of the UK detectorist, but never mind. <br /><br /><i>"this must be a nice diversionary target for your good self</i>". No it is the detectorists who use it to justify what they do. I have examined those arguments in the spirit of enquiry and open discussion and concluded that they are false and ask the detectorists and their supporters (like the PAS) to tell me where my reasoning is mistaken - so far they can't quite seem to step up to the plate. <br /><br /><i>"I have no intention of wading through them for evidence</i>" Ah. Well that's it isn't it? You can come out with glib one-liners but when there is any trace that the matter might not be that simple... "we can't be bothered to think about it in detail" is the crux of where the problem with antiquity collecting lies isn't it? Yes, you can do whatever you like "with a clear conscience" if you shut out from your mind the wider context and the deeper consequences.<br /><br />"Can't be bothered" however is NOT responsible detecting - ask the PAS.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-17617022108968424542010-11-06T00:09:17.117-07:002010-11-06T00:09:17.117-07:00Points not answered:
1) why "record" w...Points not answered:<br />1) why "record" with the pirates at all? What is this "record" for? Why not be a responsible artefact collector and go to the multi-million pound PAS with the PAS-recordable finds?<br /><br />2) if detectorists are stripping sites of artefacts then that needs to be replaced by a FULL record, not somebody waving a boxfull of bits under an FLO's nose saying "take your pick, which ones d'ya want fer the database?"<br /><br />3) why not Stop Taking Our Past?Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-1167629457411047102010-11-05T14:29:37.232-07:002010-11-05T14:29:37.232-07:00Well, I 'WILL' quote the "plough/fert...Well, I 'WILL' quote the "plough/fertiliser damage" crap to you... Without exception we detect on ploughed fields and if you were any sort of a farmer you would know how far a 'disc' goes down... Far deeper than the old fashioned horse and plough. <br />The University of Reading on "Agricultural Threats" quote "Increased ploughing depth and subsoiling operations enhance the potential for soil erosion etc etc"<br />Yes - modern farming methods have come on quite a bit since then - surely this must be a nice diversionary target for your good self and, though I am sure you would have addressed this somewhere deep in your many blog entries - I have no intention of wading through them for evidence.. As for 'taking our past' well on a winder front I think archeologists started that off with Tutankhamun and the Elgin marbles ! Enjoy your crusade - I will enjoy my hobby (and not just for finding 'one more hammered coin') with a clear conscience.johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13902774557433712776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-57642246321828874912010-11-03T14:35:47.101-07:002010-11-03T14:35:47.101-07:00Hello, that's a quick turnaround, nice to see ...Hello, that's a quick turnaround, nice to see some UK detectorists read this stuff. <br /><br /><i>"'all' my finds will find their way onto the UKDFD database."</i> Well, why "record" with the pirates at all? What is this "record" for? Why not be a responsible artefact collector and go to the multi-million pound PAS with the PAS-recordable finds?<br /><br /><i>"I should state that everyone of our club members finds (ferrous and non ferrous) are 'shown' at our bi monthly meetings to which our FLO is always present.</i>" Eh? EVERY single one? What does that "showing" achieve? Surely if detectorists are stripping sites of artefacts then that needs to be replaced by a FULL record, not somebody qwwaving a boxfull of bits under an FLO's nose saying "take your pick, which ones d'ya want fer the database?"<br /><br />Unlike you I do not think "sharing of information" is what this is (should be about), but "best practice" - in the absence of that, then "close ties" are impossible. PAS has put the cart before the horse in that, I feel.<br /><br />Yes John, you are damaging the countryside as surely as if you were picking rare orchids for the vases in the spare bedroom, nicking Osprey eggs for omlettes, you are stripping it of its soul, its history, but don't let me saying so stop you, think it out for yourself (and please don't quote the "plough/fertiliser damage" crap to me). The "hobby" is erosive, irresponsible, self-centred and unsustainable. Since you come over as a reasonable sort of bloke, why not <b>S</b>top <b>T</b>aking <b>O</b>ur <b>P</b>ast?Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-25868743865469905702010-11-03T09:29:37.267-07:002010-11-03T09:29:37.267-07:00Paul,
I feel 'honoured' that you have look...Paul,<br />I feel 'honoured' that you have looked at my web site and appreciate your comments. Your opinions are noted and without getting too defensive I should add that 'all' my finds will find their way onto the UKDFD database. Unfortunately one is only allowed to submit one find daily so, yes, I have been selective on my submissions up till now. I will be seeing my local Finds Liaison Officer this week and seeking his advice regarding what I should be submitting to the PAS site. I should state that everyone of our club members finds (ferrous and non ferrous) are 'shown' at our bi monthly meetings to which our FLO is always present.<br />I appreciate your stance on our hobby and wish there would be more 'sharing of information' and 'closer ties' between archeologists and the metal detecting community in general. It has improved but the gap still exists.<br />I should state that I have a protective love of our countryside and if I thought I was damaging it in any way I would cease this hobby forthwith. <br />Kind regards, John Feenanjohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13902774557433712776noreply@blogger.com