tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post281010582169912883..comments2024-03-27T04:46:33.198-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: Seller Dartmoorpixie's got a Dead Body: Hundred quid to a Good HomePaul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-55741788661127163972016-03-01T17:52:37.992-08:002016-03-01T17:52:37.992-08:00Good find, Paul! Grisly, for sure. Human remains f...Good find, Paul! Grisly, for sure. Human remains from a UK site or context being sold w/in the UK (or outside of it) is rather unusual, as my and colleague's research suggests. Damien Hufferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01808464886332759165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-49415403779543518422016-02-29T12:48:25.519-08:002016-02-29T12:48:25.519-08:00when you have greedy dealers it is a big SO,in an...when you have greedy dealers it is a big SO,in an ideal road they would be forced to pass on all the provenance they have.<br />kyri.kyrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725342826698223232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-19120742020693815132016-02-29T12:44:17.479-08:002016-02-29T12:44:17.479-08:00>> it would be easy for the potential buyers...>> it would be easy for the potential buyers to find out exactly how much he paid for this <<<br />So?? The price is set by the dealer, take it or leave it. So what if someone finds out the dealer had paid 30 or 80 (or 800) quid earlier? The price is what the new seller says the price is. Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-10664752154044216832016-02-29T12:04:51.019-08:002016-02-29T12:04:51.019-08:00hi paul ,the simple reason is that,like most deale...hi paul ,the simple reason is that,like most dealers,he preferes to keep the real provenance a secret ,at least for now. if he discloses full details upfront it would be easy for the potential buyers to find out exactly how much he paid for this piece.i remember seeing this when it was up for sale,i stayed well clear and find it strange that anyone would want to buy someones ashes.some dealers lose any provenance they have on purpose, not wanting to give away their suppliers or if bought from public auctions like this piece,their mark ups.<br />kyri.kyrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12725342826698223232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-2042589303889447832016-02-29T09:49:37.884-08:002016-02-29T09:49:37.884-08:001) If there is information: "Kent collection,...1) If there is information: "Kent collection, acquired by the Stratford Armouries Museum" associated with the object why is that not in the sales description upfront? What purpose does it serve hiding that information from a potential purchaser?<br /><br />2) This "museum" is just a private collection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford_Armouries. It is not a proper museum.<br /><br />3) Is this it? http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/woolley-and-wallis/catalogue-id-srwo10082/lot-690d4c45-b1f0-4a9a-8dc7-a4f200bea72d<br /><br />4) So, what provenance is that? How and when did it enter the market? Was it nighthawked or removed from a known and perhaps protected site? Why has the place of finding been obscured rather than that information preserved?<br /><br />5) There are cremated bones here, presumably human. There are a number of issues connected with the handling of and property rights to such material, even in the case of museum items https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/DCMS%20Guide.pdf<br />for this reason the policy of EBay prohibits such sales through their portal. It seems the seller was unaware of this (careless) or ignored them (arrogant).<br /><br />6) The seller says that "in accordance with" (non-existant) "eBay policy" this pot and contained remains were "shown to a museum". Which museum, and what was asked of the museum, and what was learnt from their answers? Why is that not presented in the sales spiel?<br /><br />7) Those complete flagons the seller has on sale most likely came from graves too, in other words from grave robbing - note the flagon with the damaged rim, probably standing upright in a grave. The "Mediterranean" is a big place, is the material from Cyprus Mediterranean, Italy Mediterranean, Greece Mediterranean, Libya, Syria, Turkey? All these countries have LAWs about ownership of artefacts and their export. A lame "from an old collection" is zero assurance that ANY of those laws were respected. To be bought with proper due diligence they need paperwork or other verifiable proof that the laws were adhered to. "Nobody knows, so they cannot touch you for it" is neither a licit or responsible purchase, is it?<br /><br />8) the same goes for the lamps, if they are real.<br /><br />9) And those complete bottles, remembering the James Vessey case often cited by collectors. http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Bath-archaeological-thief-caught-Bellarmine-vase/story-19135110-detail/story.htmlPaul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-6995598968143252282016-02-29T08:07:48.818-08:002016-02-29T08:07:48.818-08:00This vessel was sold at auction on 2nd September 2...This vessel was sold at auction on 2nd September 2015 by Woolley and Wallis in their sale of Antiquities, pre-columbian and tribal art. It was described as 'A bronze age earthenware cremation urn, with incised linear decoration to the sides, 15cm high, containing burnt bone fragments. Provenance A Kent collection. Acquired by Stratford Armory Museum.' Estimated at £500-600.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com