tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post7874995405563550350..comments2024-03-27T04:46:33.198-07:00Comments on Portable Antiquity Collecting and Heritage Issues: The artefact collector-friendly archaeological "Federation": debate quashedPaul Barfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-16243714123386955922009-04-20T14:58:00.000-07:002009-04-20T14:58:00.000-07:00Well really it depends how you read it. No, I am n...Well really it depends how you read it. No, I am not going to tell you how to read it, though obviously you all took it at the most superficial level. But the author apologised for the black humour and the post has gone, so I really cannot think why you are still going on about it. <br /><br /><I> 1) JISC removed the entire threads not David Connolly, and they are now going to put them back up minus the offending messages.</I> <br />No, THEY are not, it was the CBA that asked them to restore the posts to the CBA discussion forum. Connolly went over the heads of the CBA, he is out of order and owes them (and Britarch) an apology when this could have been arranged another way. It is precisely this type of hysterical reaction that makes some of us look at a BAJR-headed "federation" aiming to represent all of us somewhat warily. <br /><br />Not to mention the secret squirrel hidden passwords and behind closed doors discussion with which I suspect many of my colleagues will have no truck. If Comnnolly wants to speak for all of us, then first he has to speak with (and listen to) all of us, and not just a selected group. <br /><br />[The "Federation"] <I> It aim so far as I can tell... </I> Yes, well, as I commented its "funny" that setting it up does not entail FIRST defining its aims. That does seem rather an important first step from which the others follow. <br /><br />At the moment it looks rather like headless chicken stuff.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-42703368461658296982009-04-20T10:50:00.000-07:002009-04-20T10:50:00.000-07:00sorry, I just re-read your comment and also re-rea...sorry, I just re-read your comment and also re-read the 1939 comment on BritArch(it was still in my in box).<br /><br />RE: BritArch comment. If it is a comment to something other the the 2nd world war I don't understand it. Maybe you could give me your opinion.<br /><br />I apologise for implication you yourslf find comparing people to Hitler light hearted.<br /><br />But I do believe the comment was in very poor taste and should have been removed by BritArch itself.jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07146959408417996892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-84799113703303597562009-04-20T10:05:00.000-07:002009-04-20T10:05:00.000-07:00Actually Paul, I read your blog quite often (it is...Actually Paul, I read your blog quite often (it is in my favorite listing and everything.) Though this is the first time I have commented. I also subscibe to the BritArch forum and have been following the debate on BAJR so consider myself quite well informed on this subject.<br />I'm not sure there IS a light hearted way to compare someone to a genocidal meglomanic, but that aside I would like to make a couple of points clear.<br />1) JISC removed the entire threads not David Connolly, and they are now going to put them back up minus the offending messages.<br />2) BAJRFed is still being set up, but I cannot think of any comment made so far either pro or con detertorist. It aim so far as I can tell is to represent professionals involved in the heritage industy, who currently feel marginalized.<br /><br />It is quite distressing that this has turned into such a entrenched argument that is getting dominated by personalities, when the aim of BAJRFEd (an interim name I hasten to add) is laudable.jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07146959408417996892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-30694592913190433162009-04-19T01:26:00.000-07:002009-04-19T01:26:00.000-07:00I think that the operative word in the first quote...I think that the operative word in the first quote is precisely that "broadly" which is why (given the pro-collecting stance of BAJR) I raised the question I did. A perfectly valid point requiring at some stage an unambiguous answer. Why not sooner rather than later?Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-81454465983004149812009-04-19T00:56:00.000-07:002009-04-19T00:56:00.000-07:00I don't think anyone could give you that assurance...I don't think anyone could give you that assurance at present since as things stand the proposal is that a "Member" can include individuals or small groups that are "active within what can broadly be termed archaeology within the UK" (depends how broadly you want to define "active in archaeology"!) and if that doesn't mean metal detectorists there's always "Affiliate:<br />A person who is ....not directly involved in archaeology" - which I take to mean Tom, Dick and Gary!Marcus Preenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603874627751387853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-45262616508082805992009-04-19T00:07:00.000-07:002009-04-19T00:07:00.000-07:00I presume "Jake" was here because of: ht...I presume "Jake" was here because of: http://www.bajr.org/BAJRforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2254&whichpage=4<br /><br />Dave Connolly writes:<br /><I>"I have been passed this by another Federatation Member. <br />http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2009/04/artefact-collector-friendly.html Where yet again, it is being misunderstood, misquoted and maliciously turned into something it was not. There are claims that I run it, and that it in fact somesort of front for metal detecting and is all about pro collecting (now that really took me by surprise.. I see nothing about the federation doing that?) <br /><br />If you ... wish to reply to this, then feel free, I am ignoring it as just another pathetic personal attack, however, for those that wish to see the Federation work, you may consider this unnacceptable."</I> <br /><br />OR they may not. They may regard it as something its initiators need to clarify. Mr Connolly has not answered the questions raised here, nor has he answered those raised by members of the CBA's discussion list whose messages he had deleted over the CBA's head.<br /><br />Here now we see him suggesting that others "may" want to do his fighting for him. <br /><br />I wonder what support people will have from a federation where its self-appointed chair refuses to address some fundamental issues, proclaims he is going to ignore criticism and asks others to answer the critics. <br /><br />ARE there any <B>"Federation members"</B>? I thought it was in the process of creation. After all, they've still not worked out what it is actually going to DO. <br /><br />Could Mr Connolly, or one of his apologists authorised to make such a declaration, confirm that "metal detectorists" will not, in fact, be allowed in this Federation, even as affiliate members? Can he confirm that in the representation of the discipline to public opinion, he will not allow a confusion to develop in the public mind between the work his members do in the field with the mere collecting of portable antiquities? That seems fundamental to strengthening public support for archaeology - pointing out that it is a lot more than just "finding Treasure".Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-8121282848504774102009-04-18T14:52:00.000-07:002009-04-18T14:52:00.000-07:00people were comparing David Connolly to Hitler .
...<I> people were comparing David Connolly to Hitler</I> . <br /><B>Were</B> they Jake? Are you sure? You use the plural, how many did you count? I saw none, it seems to me that the one person who mentioned “1939” was making a light-hearted comment about something else, obviously not too skillfully, but I think if you re-read it… oh no... <br />...sorry you cannot as David Connolly's complaint over the head of the CBA led to <B>two entire threads being deleted </B>by JISC. <br /><br />Why? Because there were <B>“allegations and innuendo”</B> http://www.bajr.org/BAJRforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2254&whichpage=3 17/04/2009 : 12:07. I saw instead some perfectly pertinent points made about the federation which is supposed to represent the discipline. Most people in such a situation would simply answer those comments, clarify any misunderstanding, not <B>delete the whole of two threads</B>. That is a type of behaviour that would suit a number of totalitarian and authoritarian regimes from all parts of the political spectrum, but not one built on openess, free discussion and exchange of views. So what does that tell us about the Federation and people involved with setting it up? <br /><br />The contributor to the Britarch discussion who made the “1939” comment apologized (https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0904&L=BRITARCH&T=0&F=&S=&P=11805) about the same time as JISC were as a result of mr Connolly's complaint deleting whole chunks of the Britarch archive containing the posts with the OTHER uncomfortable questions, you know, the ones a representative of the federation has yet to properly address. I guess they feel they do not have to now. <br /><br />I personally think <B>David Connolly owes the CBA an apology</B>. <br /><br />As for name calling, of course if you criticize those “nice” (passionately interested in the past) “metal detectorist” fellows, you tend to get called a number of names. The same goes for US Coin dealers http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2008/07/example-of-us-numismophilic-erudition.html . http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2008/11/goosey-gander.html As my old professor used to say, the only way to avoid getting criticised is to sit back and do and say nothing. <br /><br /><I> it was very obviously an offensive personal attack</I> <br />well, anyone who could find the words “artefact hunter” offensive may well have a pretty low tolerance – though I must say to judge from some of the posts I see there, such sensitivities do not seem to apply to all the comments on other archaeologists that Mr Connolly allows on his forum.Paul Barfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10443302899233809948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8174756573570334952.post-35585936071573947262009-04-18T09:56:00.000-07:002009-04-18T09:56:00.000-07:00come on Paul, people were comparing David Connolly...come on Paul, people were comparing David Connolly to Hitler. I think he had a right to take offence at that, and ask for it to be removed. I also think BritArch should have removed it of their own accord, as it was very obviously an offensive personal attack.jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07146959408417996892noreply@blogger.com