Not all Collectors Unquestioning: Discussion of the Hooker-ACCG Agitation

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Tim Haines, the list owner of the Yahoo Ancient Aretifacts Discussion list likes to keep outsiders out, that way they can pretend they are all "responsible" collectors there and nobody will know what they are really up to in there (do register and have a look - it is quite an eye-opener). Despite the pretence, he is quite amenable to its use by the no-questions-asked dealers lobby (often in the person of Dave Welsh and ACCG hired-help John Hooker) for spreading anti-preservationist propaganda among its member however. I have discussed below Hooker's efforts to turn the tide of public opinion in a post over there. The reaction to this kind of thing tends to be sombre acceptance of the nonsenses trotted out by the agitator, if anybody questions the glib statements they are quickly shouted down by a small group of self-appointed Guardians of the Truth. This time however the reaction was quite intense. Outspoken collector Adrian (I do not know what he collects, but is obviously well-read) had a few cogent words in reply to Hooker which seems worth quoting to show that there are some discriminating minds in the artefact collecting milieu:

Thanks for providing the link. I will write stating that anything that the U.S. government can do to help preserve the outstanding artistic and archaeological legacy of countries such as Greece and Italy (so-called "source countries" - an obscene phrase) should be done; especially actions which will put an end to the rampant looting and subsequent export (loss) of the ancient historical treasures of these countries. I will write in favor of this MOU and any other action 'source countries' may take to defend themselves against these cultural crimes.
By the way I have never read so many specious arguments in one document. To compare an ancient Greek vase to a table lamp is simply ridiculous and please spare us the sob stories of ladies dying in jail, etc. Your attempt to invoke the "Founding Fathers" and stir up the usual blind Yankee patriotism is definitely a sign that you have no reasoned arguments left. Your employer, the ACCG, is a commercial enterprise, pure and simple, and as such its arguments are tainted. It's funny to see that coin collectors have now become "amateur and private researcher(s)" - what a crock!

Hooker merely remarked in reply "Well, doing something is better than doing nothing" (though that depends on what that "something" is) before engaging in an ad hominem attack on Adrian which its not worth discussing here. Collector Ramon commented on the ACCG-Hooker nonsense with some amusing spoof versions. Hooker had supplied one of the several versions of the accounts of Roxanna Brown's final hours, and Adrian correctly observed that Hooker was "using this death for your own purposes. So please don't pretend to care about her. Ruthless self interest is revealed!!". Adrian continues:

Are you unable to argue issues without resorting to ad hominem arguments? Apparently not. Why don't you make an effort and write a post without libelling someone. "The rest is too absurd to warrant comment" - translation: I have no comeback to these arguments.

That actually sums up the situation with the ACCG very well. Sayles, Tompa, Welsh, De La Fe, Hooker and all the rest are simply unable to argue their case properly when robustly challenged.

As a result of Adrian questioning his "too many lives have been lost" line of argument, Hooker had attacked him in the following manner: "I find it interesting that you have no empathy for humans and yet have a strange "empathy" for inanimate Greek pots. This is an extreme form of materialism. I am so glad that I am not you". A collector of Egyptian antiquities followed this up rather neatly I thought:

I have empathy for the Greek people. Their cultural heritage is being destroyed by looting, smuggled out of the country, and sold off to collectors every single day. Many of them make their way to the US. You call Adrian materialistic? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?? Coin collectors are fighting tooth and nail to be able to continue, unfettered, to buy, own, and sell (for profit of course) bits of other countries' heritage. Who's materialistic here?? I'm so glad I'm not you! That's not to say that there aren't coin collectors who do use them for study, there are to be sure. But the same can be said of any other type of antiquity as well, and I don't see collectors of any other type of antiquity pitching a fit over the current MOUs. Coins have historically been traded without provenance. The same can be said about other antiquities here as well. But as the provenance has become more important even those that were previously unprovenanced are now getting their paper trail. Why can't the same be done with coins? If dealers started documenting their items now, they wouldn't have to worry about any future MOUs, and buyers could be assured that they are not buying something freshly looted.( I know Dave [Welsh]'s argument- Too time consuming, will take up too much room for paperwork. Sorry, that argument is just lame). I see no problem with the Greek MOU ( or one with any other country for that matter). It's time the US government said that it will not let US citizens profit, monetarily or otherwise, from what is illegal activity in another country.

It is notable that that was a collector speaking, recognising that a collector cannot be in competition with those whose cultural heritage these objects also represent, who recognises that the days of collecting like Petrarch and colonialism are over, who wants to look forward with vision rather than backwards. Hooker has yet to reply.

Gentle reader: Do register with the "Ancient Artefacts" discussion list and have a good poke ariound in its closed access archives, there are some really eye-opening texts there for those who want to find out more about the real face of the antiquities trade and those who collect them. If the site really was dedicated to responsible and ethical collecting of course, there would be no reason for the archives to be closed at all, would there? You'd be surprised what goes on 'behind those closed doors' - or perhaps not.