I have already discussed the ridiculous lengths gone to by the US lobbyists busy on behalf of "I-wanna-buy-smuggled-coins" collectors and dealers. If, as a result of recent events, one was left wondering whether this could get even sillier, it does. A shock-horror headline on one of their blogs alleges:SAFE Shortcuts Public Comment Procedure
"Jeepers, creepers, Goleta Boy we have to save the world from this evil!" urgently gasps Wishingham Lawyerguy. "Look ! Saving Antiquities for Everyone (SAFE) has begun a petition campaign in support of the Bulgarian MOU, you can read all about it on paul-barford.blogspot.com !(it is odd that he does not give a link to the SAFE website, but Wishingham Lawyerguy is not very good at links).
Goleta Boy gasps: "But Wishingham Lawyerguy, the State Department Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs has already set up a procedure for public comment open to all interested in whether there should be an MOU with Bulgaria! Can't SAFE follow directions?"
"...And anyway", the Boy adds with his voice quivering with concern, "Petitions like SAFE has prepared are inherently unreliable, There is no way to verify that the signatories are real people or if one person has signed the petition under different names (like Roy Iwata)"
Wishingham Lawyerguy, shaking his head sorrowfully admonishes: "It's doubtful, Boy, that many of the signatories have any real knowledge of the issues involved beyond the minimal information they have received with the petition, not like coin collectors, fully informed about all the issues by their lobbyists and dealer pals".
"This is serious!" Exclaims Goleta Boy, "Western Democracy is at stake! We have to do something!"
"Indeed", concedes Wishingham Lawyerguy, "the very foundations of democracy could be shattered if the President's Cultural Property Advisory Committee mistakes a private petition for the Government's consultancy procedure. The results could be catastrophic, devastating !! I have to warn the President!"
I think the reason for all this concern is that it turns out that all the lobbyists' alarmist nonsense talk about auction houses and the sky falling again has so far managed to arouse less than 238 coiney naysayers adding their nimbyist comments to the Government's Regulations.gov website. On the other hand, they've noticed that, after running for just a few days, the SAFE "Say Yes to Bulgaria" Human Rights petition has so far 230 signatures. The coineys would like by their lobbying to create the impression that "the American public" are overwhelmingly in favour of NOT having import restrictions on illegally exported dugup artefacts. Then they can claim that the "voice of the People" (the voice of the American people) allegedly is being ignored when MOUs are signed. Well, are the citizens of the
USA as a whole overwhelmingly in favour of NOT having import restrictions on illegally exported dugup artefacts? Is the whole nation of one mind and one heart with the could-not-care-less buyers of looted and smuggled coins ? Indeed, are all US coin collectors of one mind and heart over this?
Vignette: Be afraid, be very afraid, coiney democridiocy is about to be challenged.
Now you are being silly. A proposal's proponents have the burden, not those who raise concerns about it.
ReplyDeleteAnd where is the groundswell of support for the Bulgarian MOU-- no where to be seen really. And if the petition signatories knew that were supporting discrimination against American collectors and shifting the burden of proof, would they have been as willing to sign?
Anyway, the numbers here are more proof that MOU's are little more than special interest programs for archaeologists.
Yes, I am "extracting the Michael".
ReplyDeleteThis is not about a "groundswell" of anything, its not a popularity contest is it? Its about doing what is right, I and a whole lot of other people think (believe) stopping the trade in illegally exported antiquities is doing the right thing.
Stop all this nonsense about being "victims" who are "discriminated against", you'll get no sympathy here. I have asked you two times, I shall ask a third, where is your list of countries where it is LEGAL to trade illegally exported Bulgarian coins? Produce one and then we can talk about the degree to which you are being "victimised" by such a regulation appearing in the USA 28 years after you became a state party to the UNESCO convention. Twenty eight years when nobody lifted as much as a finger. Shame, shame on you, the lot of you.
Thanks, Paul, again, for all your comments and courage to deal with this.
ReplyDelete@ Peter Tompa: take me for example. I am not an archaeologist, raised my voice at the MOU comments page, too (pro the Bulgarian request), and think, too, you should silence your voice given the criminal record you would have by collecting objects and supporting a system of violating other country's and our own US'laws for so many years for now with too many people tolerating. It is disgusting to read your attacks on Paul Barford. You are a shame for the US, for our world, Peter Tompa, yes you are. It is a shame that Paul has to post your stupid angriness attacks and we have to deal with sleazy "lawyers" like you.
Hmm, I note that from Peter Tompa's profile has disappeared the bit about which coins he collects...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05924359202414555962
Now why would that be?
Mr. Barford- The restrictions as applied by Customs have related to coins of Bulgarian type-- i.e. everything struck there-- not coins first discovered there which is what the statute provides. That is the main problem.
ReplyDeleteCollectors throughout the EU and Bulgaria itself can import and trade in the very same coins-- hence the discrimination mentioned.
I would request Avatar to identify himself or herself-- its the least one should expect from one making such outrageous allegations.
Mr Tompa,
ReplyDeleteWell, first of all, I was not aware the MOU with Bulgaria has been signed, so at the moment US authorities are doing bugger all about illegally exported coins "of Bulgarian type" or "struck in Bulgaria" coming into your country. I hope that will soon change. I think you are either confusing Bulgaria with another country or your tenses.
You have not listened to the question (US coiney, so what's new?).
I asked where LEGALLY you can do this. I am aware there are a lot of countries where you CAN buy all sorts of goods that are not legal. I am asking in what country it is actually legal to buy artefacts looted (thus stolen from the state and citizens) and smuggled out of Bulgaria. Not in the UK for example where there is the 2003 Dealing in Cultural Property Offences Act (the equivalent of the US CCPIA) - Art. 2 (3)(a). On 18th October I asked for a list: http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2011/10/coiney-teacup-storm.html
You have still not applied your vast knowledge of international cultural property law to substantiating the claim you make. If you wish to persist ignoring me when I say this is not so and giving the reason, would you do so, please? If you can do such a thing, it would also help coineys substantiate their arguments.
In fact, since you specifically cite the EU, just to save time and space, let it be a table of EU countries where it is legal to sell archaeological material of this type removed from another EU country bypassing its export licensing procedures. Can you do that and citing the legal basis why you have put each country in the list? (Or you could do the opposite, make a table of EU countries where it is ILLEGAL to do this with the legal basis). I am sure coin collectors in the countries concerned will thank you for it.
Mr. Tompa,
ReplyDeleteCan we still expect an answer to the very simple questions now already in infinite loop posed by Paul above?
As to my "outrageous allegations," I simply do what you do yourself: you do not answer to questions posed to you, either.
Anyway, my allegations are nothing compared to your allegations against archaeologists, Bulgarians, and the often general accusations posted in your blog and those of the people you associate with.
For instance I asked you before - like many others have before - whether you would be willing to publicize the export and import license documents for the objects in your collection, and your collection altogether if you are acting on behalf of our common world cultural heritage, just to show us that we can trust you. It is ILLEGAL to trade illegally exported coins without any such export or import documents in the US. So what is so difficult to understand here? What do you need my name for? And again, and for the xxx-time, in which EU country is it legal to trade illegally exported ancient coins, and is it so in the US since you know the laws obviously much better than any other person on this planet?