"Ancient Coin Market" and its Disclaimer

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In the post above I mention my recent adventures with the "Ancient Coin Market" (ACM) discussion list. This list was founded by Thom Bray and Kevin Barry in the framework of the yahoo discussion lists in 1999 to act as a venue where sellers and collectors of ancient coins could post their sales and want lists.

Here's how the posting history looks:

Message History

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2012	32	32	53	20
2011	63	53	86	47	58	47	67	41	48	30	42	36
2010	71	78	106	96	89	88	73	54	72	56	63	66
2009	107	91	125	92	80	81	89	71	92	67	82	85
2008	94	115	138	112	114	105	123	94	109	117	136	127
2007	156	117	148	130	110	122	123	121	130	112	116	112
2006	158	210	207	208	212	188	160	134	138	151	161	147
2005	244	241	223	229	224	196	129	123	168	186	200	221
2004	283	258	326	309	303	236	225	230	217	250	289	221
2003	355	362	401	380	401	353	331	361	355	334	342	315
2002	243	293	371	225	317	345	276	279	373	286	310	304
2001	419	335	350	344	328	284	303	248	299	290	260	229
2000	303	493	609	485	427	337	314	384	498	498	405	292
1999	3											1

The list seems to have suffered a decline since the middle of 2009.

Uncleaned Ancient Coins seems to be going the same way, is the bottom dropping out of the market for this stuff? Or are the supplies of coins drying up as the more accessible sites are "hammered" into nothingness?

Message History

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2012	8	39	24	12
2011	72	61	69	64	39	24	13	18	10	22	28	20
2010	61	123	64	88	77	82	104	104	26	47	31	13
2009	99	136	205	173	155	105	73	76	58	85	98	102
2008	75	121	79	157	183	105	119	123	156	39	184	186
2007	530	170	218	441	229	105	135	132	127	35	101	117
2006	145	173	211	104	93	103	73	122	59	59	291	327
2005	247	127	350	173	216	101	168	134	86	131	193	77
2004	107	115	448	680	696	490	580	559	226	146	172	186
2003	303	403	276	146	103	109	175	146	127	86	119	164
2002	153	162	232	220	309	155	164	156	218	169	192	205
2001					191	210	279	99	186	140	63	221

More interesting is what is happening to Moneta-L:

Message History

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2012	327	271	415	69
2011	369	384	378	298	268	213	406	601	324	297	259	438
2010	306	368	254	368	425	135	217	135	344	172	269	247
2009	582	282	233	369	264	267	585	271	362	269	276	177
2008	518	332	361	266	225	179	435	457	331	445	392	390
2007	585	536	415	228	386	214	159	268	349	415	498	509
2006	788	913	528	495	393	619	493	357	523	385	426	327
2005	931	968	818	622	717	401	445	893	660	852	733	1013
2004	1099	914	901	597	794	776	638	877	758	871	776	1002
2003	1134	1220	1132	1042	1047	716	960	1192	1003	836	879	769
2002	1040	813	1034	1059	962	923	841	1104	1106	1111	1030	991
2001	980	974	1304	1195	1167	1000	1231	656	786	624	1250	997
2000	1318	1252	1219	1245	1262	1611	1655	1446	1511	1009	1004	752
1999				245	380	649	584	485	791	687	534	924
1998												1

From over a thousand posts a month to a few hundred, the decline setting in here in 2008. What is interesting is the fact that this is not accompanied by the founding of new lists and the drifting of contributors there. There seems to be a declining interest among collectors of ancients in talking about what they do (sadly the statistics for the Forum forum are not accessible).   ACM.

To return to ACM, the disclaimer of this Yahoo discussion group is interesting:

Caveat Emptor:  The coins advertised for sale or trade through this list are not verified in any way by the list moderators.  List moderators do not warranty them as authentic, nor do they offer any sort of guarantee.  The sellers and buyers who use this list have not had their identities verified, and the list moderators make  no warranty as to the veracity of their identities, or claims made about the items they offer for sale or trade.  Users of this email list are completely responsible for the results and consequences of any transaction made as a result of a posting made to this list.  Users of this email list agree that they have no claim against the list moderators for any outcome of any transaction made as a result of a message posted to this list. This list is not to be used for any activity which is or may be in violation of the law.

The first part of this is connected with that old coin collectors' bugbear, the authenticity of coins which 'come from nowhere in particular'. The last sentence alone is concerned with their legality. No mention is made of any kind of ethics, simply that buyers are responsible for their own decisions.  What does it mean "This list is not to be used for any activity which is or may be in violation of the law"? I suppose the two dealers running the list think they are covered from any kind of prosecution for advertising illegal goods. That would work in US law, I am not so sure it applies in UK law where the responsibilities of discussion list owners has in the past been interpreted differently (and the list is used and read in the United Kingdom). Merely saying "this list shall not be used" however does not absolve its owners from taking action against a member clearly breaking a law. Here though the old "no-questions-asked" dealing mechanism kicks in. A seller offers stuff that raises questions, but if nobody asks the question, nobody hears a disturbing answer.