Mystery object |
On the floundering Ancient Artefacts forum "furk_61" (medieval silvered belt buckle Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:50:14), wrote:
hello all"Found in the former Yugoslavia" seems a get-out phrase used to avoid saying where exactly this thing WAS found, to avoid any country claiming it back. The former Yugoslavia existed from 1918 to 1992 and the area (255,804 square km) is now occupied by six countries (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia), plus Kosovo. How did this object leave the ground? How did it leave the country? One collector notes: "The nomenclature (sic!) "found in the former Yugoslavia" is practically a trademark of Ancient Treasures in California. If so, the find spot was undoubtedly the Balkans".
just won this at auction. the seller says it was found in the former yugoslavia and that it is medieval. anyone have any idea on what centuries it could be from? (unfortunately this is the only picture)
Best regards.
Furkan.
Now, dear reader, look at this thing... does it look "Medieval" in any way? Would anyone having any knowledge of European decorative styles of the last couple of millennia (like you'd expect a collector "passionately interested in the past" to have some inkling of) think it was medieval? I'd say anyone who thought it was deserves a poke in the eye and being told to go back to the books. One forum member suggests it might be Chinese (intiomating that he believes the stated provenance to be a false one), someone else, closer to the mark suggests Baroque "and the object would not be earlier than the 17th century at most (but may be considerably newer)". I also do not see teh "silvered' in this photo.
If the forum had a few more members with more experience with artefacts, Mr Furkan would have learnt that he's been "had" by a dealer who is either cynical and disrespectful of his clients and realises some of them will swallow any old junk attribution, or the dealer is just totally ignorant of what he's got. The object shown is part of a Late Ottoman pafti belt buckle, it probably has a loop on the underside (not shown, because "why?" eh, seller), rather than the countries of "former Yugoslavia", this is more likely to have been from the area of modern Bulgaria. There is a page on these belts here: Bulgarian belt buckles and the secrets they hold (Desislava Semkovska, 21 Aug 2019). Both the seller and the buyer could have worked that out and come across information on the Internet. The dealer could not be bothered, though, he'd a box of assorted metal detected bits froma middleman who'd got stuff from "some southern European metal detectorists" - neither dealer ofr middleman cared - knowing where they're from only brings trouble ("don't ask, don't get told no lies"). The buyer has a forum where the people can help out and give him an answer on a plate without the buyer having to do any thinking or research. that's what a lot of artefact collecting looks like today. Democratisation, yes, but of stupignorance and superficiality.
I do not like the rough modelling, the miscast ornament on the rim on two sides and unconvincing patina on this object, presumably brass. If I saw this in a flea market, I'd assume it was a modern cast replica for the curio and tourist market of relatively recent date. Buyer beware.
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Paul, my dear fellow, what is it that you actually do?? From my observations, it would seem that you are nothing more than a Polish-based blogger with a maniacal hatred of metal detectorists. If you can demonstrate to my satisfaction that you have, as an archaeologist, contributed something significant that can be shown to have advanced our knowledge of the past then why should we take any notice of you?
ReplyDeleteWhat?
ReplyDeleteSpeak English "my good fellow". Why should I be the slightest bit interested in "satisfying" you, just one of many readers of this blog? What "entitles" you to address anyone here in such tones?