On a metal detecting forum near you (Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:59 pm ) member "Koppaberg" describes his or her "todays hoiking session": hi all had a quick hr after work god it gets dark quick now . still had a good hr hoiking finds out got to keep the FLO'S busy as its cost the taxpayer 15 million pounds you know of public money , just to keep the PAS afloat . god i just love this hobby sport call it what you like its the not knowing what will turn up i am just as happy finding buttons as i am coins or artefacts mine you i love finding buckles not in it for the munny you know just the 'istry' here are my finds for the last hrs session really pleased with 5 roman coins and what is left of a steel yard weight [...]Five Roman coins an hour, and in the darkening of the day, eh? So six hours a year of that and he'll have matched the recordable finds numbers of the Heritage Action Erosion Counter algorithm.
Member "Allectus" is well-pleased (Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:01 pm) "Splendid hoiking again there mate....well hoiked!", and member "Fisher1266X" (Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:11 pm) echoes that: "Well "hoiked". "Glenfiddich" (Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:54 am) concurs: "well I must say Kopparberg that certainly IS a good days hoiking for sure". Then we have the nationalist and xenophobic jibes: "alloverover" [Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:30 pm] "Some nice coins there KB, nothing like a good hoikski"...
What the observer will note is that from the two pages of bumpkin hilarity aroused by Koppaberg's use of a particular verb, there emerges nothing reflecting even a smidgin of awareness of the real issues concerning the removal of archaeological evidence by Koppaberg and what was and was not recorded and what happens to the material and those observations. Merely taking the stuff along to the FLO seems to be thought to be sufficient to deal with the issues. There is not the slightest intent among the majority of artefact hunters in the UK of actually addressing these issues, neither is there any intent in the PAS to induce, let alone make, them. Probably even (one might guess from what metal detectorists have said about their dismissive attitudes to sources of information like this blog), there is no move to even keep them informed of what some see as the issues to be addressed. Some "partnership", eh?
TAKE A GOOD LOOK at this behaviour, for these are precisely the sort of people the PAS wants to grab more and more millions of public quid to make into the "partners" of the British Museum, archaeological heritage professionals and to whom they want us all to entrust the exploitation of the archaeological record. Take a good look and decide what you think about that as a "policy".
6 comments:
Hi Paul, I don't understand your problem with detectorists? We research the history of the land and then dig up artifacts. After this we record our finds onto a database and obviously if the item is classes as treasure then the proper procedure is followed. I think any detectorists dream is to dig up something that is worthy of a place in a museum so it will be on display for all to see. I for one would be proud to have my name above a found piece of history in a museum. So how do we differ from the archeologists?
"I don't understand your problem with detectorists? "
Is that a statement or a question? It cannot be both.
There is a blog here with upward of a thousand (!) posts explaining in great detail in plain English what my problem is with artefact hunting, and another thousand or so explaining the problems I have with artefact collecting. I suggest that to avoid me having to repeat myself you might like to read them. I think it is pretty much all there.
" how do we differ from the archeologists? "
oh in about everything other than "we dig up", I would say.
Why not go to the Portable Antiquities Scheme with questions like this? They are there to explain to the public these issues, and get paid money to do so.
Suggest they put a bit on their website about it.
Well here is a question for you Paul. Would you prefer the said artifacts and coins to be left in the ground undiscovered so the public has no chance of ever seeing them for what could be eternity? Surely it is better that these items are recovered and then logged so that our history can be plotted.
As far as I'm concerned 99% of detectorists have the same reasons for finding items as the archeologists. Surely we can all work together to get a better picture of our pasts?
I suppose at the end of the day people like you have no rights or power to stop us detectorists from finding and recording history so it must sheep be in your best interest to help us and educate us instead if just basically slagging us off to anyone that will listen ?
Grrrr. Mr Baines, what part of "read my blog to find out what I think" do you have problems understanding?
What part of "ask the PAS, that's what they are there for" do you not understand?
What part of the word "conservation" is cognitively foreign to you?
Conservation is not getting everything "where the public can see it". You cannot use the argument for wildebeest, elephants and meercats can you (can you?). Or the whales. Where is the problem understanding what seems to me to be a perfectly simple concept?
Again, ask the PAS what the issues are if you cannot be bothered to do the "research" yourself by reading up on the subject. (How else do you understand the concept?)
I doubt that through artefact hunter finds "our history can be plotted" - what on earth do you mean by that phrase? What is "plotted", and what does that "plot" mean, and how can we tell?
" As far as I'm concerned 99% of detectorists have the same reasons for finding items as the archeologists. " Well, as far as I am concerned, I think you are totally wrong.
Archaeologists do not "look" for "artefacts". Artefacts are just a small part of archaeological research, not the be-all-and-end-all you seem to imagine. Once again, why not go to the PAS and ask them for some recommendations on books about archaeology so you can check your ideas about what archaeology is today? Start with Renfrew and Bahn.
" people like you have no rights or power to stop us detectorists "
I think if we see damage being done by current policies (and I do) we have an obligation to try and do something to stop it. That's "conservation", you see.
The PAS was set up fifteen years ago to "educate [you] instead if just basically slagging us off to anyone that will listen,"> It was not set up to "help" you though. The PAS has been making a valiant effort to impress people that it has been a huge success doing this. It has to, to get more money. The fact that you are coming here today to seek answers to such basic questions instead of popping along to the PAS office is just another indication of what an utter failure the Scheme has been in its basic purpose - which was outreach (a non-scary word for "education").
So, if you will forgive me, I will carry on telling thinking people how I think it is and why. I am not interested in educating and helping metal detectorists, there are fifty archaeologists over in England, and for the moment Wales, whose day job it is to do that. My hope is that as more and more people start to see through the cracks in the facade (and this blog attempts to make a modest effort towards that), the ground will be prepared for a reaction against current policy and for a change.
I would like to point out that this blog is about artefact hunters and collectors, not a service for them.
I would read through the thousand blogs you have but it's just full of mindless whinging drivel, I was hoping you could maybe just bullet point your key issues and the differences between what we do and what archeologists do. Unfortunately you won't do this you would rather bore me to death with 1000 meaningless blogs, could it be because you have you have got so bitter and wrapped up in this that you have actually forgotten yourself what the point of all this is ? I find it funny to be honest that you guys are trying to draw us into some kind of war of words with your university educations. We won't rise to it though Paul as we believe in what we done for uncovering our countries history, and as it turns out we have the law on our side and now ed vaizy, would you believe that eh?!
Regards
Bainsey
Well, if you are convinced it is "drivel", then there is no point in suggesting you read it.
I think, as I said, the PAS might be a better bet for you, they probably could dumb down the issues to a couple of bullet points for the benefit of detectorists in a way they will not find "boring".
As I said, I am not trying to draw anyone into a war of words, this blog is not FOR metal detectorists and suchlike, its ABOUT them. If you want to read it, read it. If you don't, then don't. If you want to discuss it, then first you do have to read it, but I see you prefer to do your "research" by proxy, facilely dismissing it all as "whinging drivel" because that's what your guffawing M8s say.
This has nothing to do with "university educations", it is about logic, truth, responsibility and public policy.
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