Twenty years of PAS Liaison Has Got Us Here....

Keeping it to themselves

Over among the 'responsible detectorists' (go and have a look at them) we can see they have a conundrum. one guy does not know what to do:

Dave Reynolds from Llanelli, Wales 15 January at 19:36
I have received an Email from my FLO who would like me to take some of finds into her office. They would like to know find spots which I do have, with a view to explore the area. They are doing a dig not that far from where they were found which is fine. I know that a Roman hoard was found in the area. My question is would you show them or not? Their director is very interested in what I have. I am really unsure what to do. Could I lose the site to them if I show what I have (it's all Roman Coinage and a couple of fibula) [...] Now what would you do? We are taking about 100+ roman bronze a couple of silver and 3 broaches

In general, fellow metal detector users were not at all keen that he should do the responsible thing and show the objects.

Andrew Fudge If it's not treasure then it's your call. You don't need to show them anything. I would ask why    

Paul Wolds Nope. Happened to a Freind [sic] of mine. He showed flo finds, got chatting, told her where the find spot was. She had gone and hassled the farmer to allow archies and herself to go dig it all up. My Freind [sic]  lost the permission and put the farmer on edge about others now wandering his Land on a night.     

Paul Smith Be very wary. I had an almost identical situation to yours and decided to divulge my area to the FLO. Worst mistake ever! Totally hassled the farmer, who in turn blamed me for causing all the unwanted interest on his land. List the permission not long after that. Never again though.

Paul Wolds  deny access.  

Gary Watts "nope, sorry busy for the next couple months"

James Petts Tell them another field down the lane    

Drew Suttle Just say, "hello. I would be glad to show you the items in question however on this occassion [sic] i'm an not willing to disclose the exact location in compliance with the landowners wish not to divulge information that would bring unwanted attention to his land and the security of said property."   

Gary Watts  beautiful answer.....basically. None of your Business...    

Stuart Beatson Ask your land owner I lost one permission because he was scared of losing his opinions [sic] to use his OWN FEILD [sic] be warned    

Julie Argent Deffo discuss the reality of what could happen with the land owner first. Its his call. Tell him of what people have said above too.  Would I tell them an exact location so they could dig it? Hell no. That's just me. You haven't found treasure, so not obliged to give away anything on location. Why can't they just continue as they are? You find it and record it. 

 Dave James In theory it all looks harmless and the FLO are just interested, but the final outcome 'could' be totally different.     

Dave James Dave,rest assured the final outcome 'will' be totally different from what the initial interest is.... i wish you and the landowner all the best and 'hope' you make the right decision as it could cause a lot of anger and upset.   

Julie Argent Say no   

Dickie Weston You will lose your permission, the farmers gonna be mad cos time team have fenced his land off? and he can't use it anymore [emoticon]   

John Maloney Hate to say Time Team finished a long time ago.... [emoticon]

Dickie Weston no shit. He might be OK then [emoticon]  

Paul Symonds I'm with most on here... it sounds harmless but could quickly escalate. Id reply politely saying you'll discuss this with the landowner and be in touch. Ultimately being his land he has the final word so discuss in depth with him before committing to anything. Let us know how this pans out... it's an interesting dilemma    

Nick Newton-clare If you new the lotto numbers for this week, would you tell people. NO! keep it to yourself.    

Kathy Gramlich Lol no way!!!     

Mike A'Court Show them if you want to lose your permission.Farmer will be advised to stop anyone detecting there. It has happened to me

Justin Herrera Hell No!!!     

Karl Proctor You will lose your site 100%   

David Spencer Ask the farmer .   

Carl Kelsall The landowners call, in my opinion, he's the one who'll get all the hassle if it goes further and they dig a villa up on his land!    

Owen Williams Farmer will go mad if you don’t Tell him They could shut down one of his fields no way do that     

Neil Green DON'T DO IT!! The Archelogists [sic] ****ed up one of my permissions and another permission I was hoping to get. Never again, and another reason why I don't trust the FLO

Then along comes a trouble-maker....

Arne Hertz Shame on anybody that will not share information about our mutual past. If detecting in your country is all about mine mine then you do not deserve the right to use a detector. Every ancient artifact not recorded is dilution of your local history.     

Kevin Whitcombe view from an Archie obviously...... get yourself a detector and find your own stuff . Stop relying on us !       

Arne Hertz [Denmark] sorry, but I am not an archie, but neither am I an ignorant treasure hunter, as many of you take pride in presenting yourselves as. i am semi active with my detector and has had one artifact displayed by the National Museum in Denmark. Several by the local museum. Also a number of my finds are mentioned in archaeological articles. Besides the fact that these artifacts belong the State in Denmark, the chance to contribute to the knowledge of the local past, means more than the reward I will get for finding the artifacts.    

Silvia Brandmeier [Frankfurt Am Main] It seems from your findings there could be real new insight of historical interest. The question is: can you really take the responsibility to not cooperate with the FLO. Many of the answers here seem very selfish to me. Historical findings should not be handled as if they were a self-service outlet. Because this could finally lead to detecting being banned   

Anthony Stinchcombe I would always step aside for the archaeologists   

Mike A'Court Only once I reckon.

Wouldn't it be nice to see a FLO going overthere and telling them a few things? the same things they've been telling 'detectorists'  for twenty long years - yet what is stopping the message sinking in?

No trace of those '100 coins' here yet....

Where here is the 'responsible detecting' we hear so much about?  British artefact hunters represent themselves as out to help 'preserve the past' but it seems their desire to do that is limited to the occasions when they can save it into their own pockets, not if they have to share it with the rest of us.

We will be aware of the number of times 'the landowner would not give agreement to recording' is an excuse used for pocketing finds without record. the blame is passed onto teh landowner. Here we see the mechanism of that in action, go and see the farmer, spread a few stories of alarm, problem sorted. Pocket away.

The artefact hunters who had 'their' sites taken from them...  first of all it's the landowner's property, if he has listened to archaeologists who persuade him to help preserve an important or fragile site, then that is their right. It is also the duty of the archaeologist (isn't it) to persuade a conservation-conscious and responsible landowner to help preserve from damage an important or fragile site. A truly responsible 'detectorist' would not be withholding information because that's the only way they can carry on damaging an important or fragile site. What then can we say about those who appeared on  Facebook and in full view make their personal views on this known?

And James Petts suggestion that when faced with a FLO-drama, the finder can just 'Tell them that the find came from another field down the lane' is of course always an option. Nobody will ever know. And how many findspots in the PAS database have actually been verified (for example by submission of individual finds release protocols signed by the landowners together with objects brought in for recording)? I have been told by FLOs that in general that no such checking takes place and findspots are taken on trust, and in cases when the FLOs intuition tells them the finder might be lying, there can be a tense situation.   How many reported findspots in the PAS database are totally false?   Even if the actual number is just 1% of the database, at a time when there are 1,300,000 objects in that database, that is 13000 objects (!).

One thing is interesting, in many of the detectorist forums these days there are thought-police moderators that react very quickly to any member's straying from the facadist public image - deleting them (and indeed whole threads) if there is anything about them that shows 'detecting' in less than pristine noble light. Facebbook seems far more difficult for them to control, and one can often find a lot of candid comments (as here) that fly right in the face of the narrative so often presented to the public of this exploitive hobby.

And how interesting that the majority of the British contributors to this thread were warning the finder to stay away from the FLO - and it was the guy from Denmark that put them right about their responsibilities, backed up by the German lady. So what, exactly, has teh PAS been achieving over all these years.  Yes, Ms Brandmeier "this could finally lead to detecting being banned", when people in Britain wake up.   

TAKE A GOOD LOOK at this behaviour, for these are precisely the sort of people the PAS wants to grab more and more millions of public quid to make into the "partners" of the British Museum, archaeological heritage professionals and to whom they want us all to entrust the exploitation of the archaeological record. Take a good look and decide what you think about that as a "policy".