It seems that archaeologists who do not visit the metal detecting websites are missing an opportunity not only to do outreach but to look and learn about why the recording of artefacts found by artefact hunters is dropping off. But it is just there a mouse click away. Take this one for example: Metal Detecting Resource Hub /Detecting Related/ Detecting Chat Stolen treasure. It starts off with a post that starts the whole thing off (spelling and punctuation as in original). It is by a bloke called Majorpete75 ( Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:27 pm):
As you no I found 2 hoards and treasure find all in about 4 months of each other it's been about 29 months the ba hoard . So 2 weeks ago I went to my local museum to see the flo as I need some finds I'd was sat for about 30 mins with him . Then got up to leave and thought I would ask about my treasure finds . So he said sit down so I did he told me one my axhead had been stolen from Lancashire council where he is based the police was involved I was gutted and shocked and when I ask about my coin hoard if that was missing he couldn't tell me .He even said for me to keep it quiet well me being me I was straight on the phone to BM to speak to micheal lewis confirmed that there is theft and the coroner had called investigation so micheal lewis didnt get back to me so I call bk again spoke to someone else who said Lancashire council will be notifying everyone that has had items stolen will be notified this was ment to happen a week ago . So today I get a phone call today of the flo who said his boss heather hasnt got back to me as b been busy and she will get back to me the end of week if she hasnt then to call him . So I asked what was missing of mine he said besides the axhead I told you about at the museum all your coins have gone to 23 hammered coin hoard that the chance of ever finding again gutted . and he was sure if my pendant has gone to until he in the office . This is massive theft of treasure it's not just mine there is loads one guy half his saxon hoard gone another lady been trying to get hold of heather demanding a crime number for her stollen treasure this is unbelievable someone in there house has stolen 1000s worth of treasure.That quote is significant (punctuation, spelling tweaked): "This is massive theft of treasure. It's not just mine, there is loads; one guy half his Saxon hoard gone, another lady been trying to get hold of Heather demanding a crime number for her stolen treasure. This is unbelievable, someone in their house has stolen [£]1000s worth of treasure".
Writing on 1 Nov, Majorpete says "I have not had crime number neither have other people when asking it's a big cover up". [...] "I will be calling police myself tomorrow was ment to find out today if my pendant has gone a not a reply shocking watch me out I seen about 8 people from same flo and most are half hoards or full hoards gone".
It seems forum members are not at all surprised by this:
"There have been rumours of items going missing for decades".
Wardie1994 "Hear of items going missing all the time, I’ve had a few bits go missing" [...]
Metalurgy (Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:18 pm) "I’m very sorry to hear this but not surprised, there has been so much theft in the past and unfortunately it’s still going on. This isn’t an isolated incident but the professionals are incapable of sorting this out and I’m afraid it will just continue".
alloverover (Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:33 pm) "Not too supprising, ive had stuff go missing before".
Since there are now quite a few accusations on this issue, one wonders why detectorists have not raised a ruckus before. As Wardie1994 says: "if we don’t let it go and make a fuss things will change. This isn’t about money, it’s about safeguarding items that have been lent to a system for recording for the wider benefit of everyone. If it can’t be trusted then confidence goes and the system collapses. That is in no one’s interest…
The PAS should address this wider issue now as a matter or urgency. How many cases were there and how many do they have records for? because there are accusations too of record-fiddling
Prasutagus [ Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:41 pm]
I had a Saxon silver cross disappear after handing over to my FLO. Not only that, but they had the audacity to then tell me, after further review, from studying the remaining pictures of the cross, they believed it was actually less than 300 years old and closed the treasure case. It was 100% Saxon. I was speechless. This happens way more than people think.
Any details and comment from the Portable Antiquities Scheme? What are the facts according to them? Can we see the pictures?
Member keyfits (Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:24 am) voices an opinion about an issue that many of us are wondering about:
I suspect that one theory regarding missing finds are possibly down to a third party who have had access to the finds store area rather than official department long term staff who would be the first obvious suspects and would have to be very cunning and brazen or very stupid (or a bit of all those). It's obviously someone with the knowledge (staff or third party) that treasure finds can take forever to get processed and won't be missed for a long time which brings in to play another theory, staff knowing they are about to leave? The last theory is the one that PAS use most of the time, that the finds have been misplaced or lost but this has been happening quite a lot from various posts and reports over the years but can't be totally be dismissed, although I suspect that this is more unlikely for most (not all) of missing items. I will leave it to Columbo to sort out. This disturbing ongoing issue of finds going missing needs to be publicised at the highest level to make sure that these departments bolster their security and ensure that only authorised personnel have monitored access.
The forum thread has now been locked. A shame, because it looks quite revealing and raises some questions that should be being addressed about PAS curation and heritage management.
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2 comments:
I've just had some pieces returned. Lithics. There was a beautiful scraper in amongst them with gorgeous fossil inclusions. It's been taken and replaced with a broken shard of flint that i did not recover. It was not present when they were handed over. Someone has cherry picked the piece and switched it out with a piece that i definitely did not find. I know because everything was photographed before it was submitted. I won't be handing anything else in to Lancashire PAS in the future.
Well, obviously it is good you recorded these things, and we can all agree that you jolly well should not have to face a situation like the one you describe. Absolutely. Have you confronted the FLO? What did they say?
I have checked and there is NO flint scraper with a fossil on it recorded by the Lancs FLO in recent years (there's one from 2013 which I assume is not it). If you are sure it was an actual artefact and have a photo of the one you think was nicked/misplaced, what I'd be inclined to do is (together with the landowner if it'd give it more clout) DEMAND they put a record, using your photo, onto the database.
First of all, it's a record of your hard-earned find that you made an effort to share with us all, secondly if somebody's half-inched it, there is a public record that they are not the rightful owner. Thirdly the FLO has a field on the database to fill in about what happened to the find. They can't say it was "returned to the finder" and would have to admit that it went missing somewhere. Might even make them have a more thorough look.
I wonder how often that field would be filled in nationwide down through the years if the PAS was honest about that. In my experience, when there is an actual problem, the record ends up getting hidden. Make sure yours is out in the open.
Obviously, I do not know the circumstances, and don't actually know your two Lancs FLOs, but there are two of them, and I presume they share an office/working space, so it is possible that stuff could get muddled up due to that. I know all the FLOs have loads of things to do all at once, and it seems to me that the PAS is not exactly the world's best employer, and they are only human, so muddles can occur - no matter how much they should not. Try and nudge them a bit more to sort this out.
To be honest (again, I don't know them at all) it would be odd that a FLO, would nick a flint. However nice it is, it's not a very covetable, or saleable thing. My guess is that it has simply got mixed up with somebody else's stuff, or dropped down behind a desk. Nudge them some more.
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