Tuesday, 3 February 2015

Focus on Metal Detecting: "Not Nice" to Discuss Recording Statistics


"You are not very nice, so there!"
Notable is a UK metal detectorist's comment resulting from me pointing out in the comments section of a Cypriot newspaper the actual figures behind the claimed "success of the Portable Antiquities Scheme". This ambassador for the UK "responsible detecting" community is not really all that bothered about the extent of irresponsible detecting these figures display, he's bovvered that it does not reflect all that well on the claims for a massive level of "responsible detecting". Anyway, he has an answer:
John is right, Barford shows very anti-detecting views and his blog posts and comments on other blogs let everyone see this [...] Basically if you are not an archaeologist you are not worthy of saving history and even if you are an archaeologist you can still find yourself the victim of his foul, acid tongue attacks. Not a very nice chap.
We are not going to play with him, so there ! The relevance of that remark to the topic under discussion is known only to its author. The comment of mine to which that was ostensibly a reply is that not very many of the finds artefact hunters are hoiking out of the historical record are actually 'saved history' because PAS figures indicate they simply disappear without record. As I said, that does not seem to concern those "responsible detectorists" that "support the PAS".

The people of Cyprus, any of them that are reading that thread, must be getting really confused by now. They can see that the person who is accused of being the 'nasty' one has been responding to the original points made by Dr.Vassos Karageorghis and John Barbour perfectly civilly and presenting supporting facts and figures to back up what he says. Those who want to be seen as the real cuddly friendly history savers are behaving in a needlessly aggressive and childish fashion, engaging in irrelevant mud-slinging. At times it seems talking to a group of special needs children would probably be easier than explaining simple facts to some UK metal detectorists. Real UK Ambassadors of the Hobby they are.

UPDATE 5.1.15

QED. I wonder if Mr Baines ever thinks about the sagacity of that old adage about not opening one's mouth in case all doubt disappears.  In his little moan ('Paul Barford, the archaeological world's biggest let down' [sic] Andy's UK metal detecting blog Wednesday, 4 February 2015) he reckons I am engaging in what he calls "foul mouthed outbursts" and a "disgusting rant". Basically it seems he is knee-jerk annoyed that I said that explaining issues about preserving that past "to a group of special needs children would probably be easier than explaining simple facts to some UK metal detectorists". If I had said "explaining things to my cat [or my left boot] would probably be easier than explaining simple facts to some UK metal detectorists" would he take that as being in some way offensive to all cats and footware?

11 comments:

Sam Ofnett said...

This really is childish. These people should be so grateful that we spend so much money on recording things so they can have their hobby. I guess there are some things about it they do not like being pointed out

Andy Baines said...

Sam you have no idea what you are talking about and sound like the typical "sock puppet" character created on some of these blogs, do you know famer Silas Brown by any chance?

You claim metal detectorists are not grateful, well that statement is wrong. We are very grateful of the PAS and everyone who works within it, we are very grateful to the tax payer who funds it also ( I pay my taxes too). In return the tax payer is very grateful to us for bringing to light many finds which otherwise would not be known. The only people who are not grateful are the ones who are trying to destabilise and chip away at the PAS, Paul is one of them.

You more than likely will not see this comment because it will be deleted, very one sided and biased blog this.

Paul Barford said...

but "bringing to light many finds which otherwise would not be known" is only part of what the PAS was set up to do. How much of this does the man in the street get from this? How much in reality have metal detectorists - metal detectorists like Mr Baines - been educated by the Scheme? The point is when an opportunity arose to present the fruits of that outreach, once again metal detectorists disappoint by simply getting personal and hitting out. I suggest it is people like Mr Baines who- despite a massive effort by the archaeological community over the past 18 years - "has no idea what he's talking about". All he has really gained by having the PAS is he feels it empowers him to insult people.

Sam Ofnett said...

It looks like Mr Baines is angling for an invitation LOL. Sorry to disappoint, but you do not really seem my type...

Andy Baines said...

What? That made no sense and was not relevant in anyway. Proof if any was needed that you don't have a clue what you are taking about

Paul Barford said...

Hmmmm...

Sam Ofnett said...

Andy Baines, what I think is "relevant" is that you seem to have problems relating to other people and for no reason at all hit out at them. It seems to me that Mr barford is right to point out the amazingly distorted sense of entitlement metal detectorists seem to exhibit at every step. For Mr Baines, it is enough for me to express an opinion which is contrary to his own, and he immediately accuses me of being a "puppet" and then denies me the ability as a woman to know what I am talking about. The very idea!

Mr Baines it is very much "relevant" that instead of allowing honest discussion about something, you simply try to shout down any sensible points made by anyone else. That shows me that in reality you have no appreciation for (or intellectual stake in) the aims and mission of the Portable Antiquities Scheme but are only interested in what it does for you and the image of your hobby. While that is a shame, it really bears out what I said about metaldetectorists above before you attacked me.

Andy Baines said...

I have two points to make. The first being that I never knew you was a female, how would I ? Not that it changes anything.

The second point is that I will happily discuss or debate with anyone male or female as long as they do not have a grudge against the PAS system and try their hardest to upset it. This is because there is no reasoning with these people, its their way or the highway.

Paul Barford said...

Why are you being so defensive about the PAS? Is there any reason why the PAS cannot defend itself?

Nobody has a "grudge", but there are concerns, and the PAS is trying its best to avoid addressing questions about them

Andy Baines said...

I'm being defensive because it is a great resource that you tend to attack on a regular basis. The PAS is doing great and if there were any issues that needed addressing it is of my opinion that someone somewhere who has the power would be sorting it. At the end of the day it is funded from taxes so there is no way with the countries current financial situation that it would be allowed to fail.

Paul Barford said...

Well, if you look back at the original post on Cyprus Mail which started this whole thing, it is hardly an "attack" to discuss in civil and impersonal tone the actual statistics published by the PAS themselves. It was you and John Howland that turned the discussion into an attack, a personal attack on people trying to discuss it. Would you do the same of they wee discussing hospital beds?

" The NHS is doing great and if there were any issues that needed addressing it is of my opinion that someone somewhere who has the power would be sorting it".

 
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