Tuesday 10 April 2012

"Ancient Coin Market" and its Disclaimer

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In the post above I mention my recent adventures with the "Ancient Coin Market" (ACM) discussion list. This list was founded by Thom Bray and Kevin Barry in the framework of the yahoo discussion lists in 1999 to act as a venue where sellers and collectors of ancient coins could post their sales and want lists.

Here's how the posting history looks:

Message History


Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2012 32 32 53 20







2011   63 53 86 47 58 47 67 41 48 30 42 36
2010   71 78 106 96 89 88 73 54 72 56 63 66
2009   107   91 125 92 80 81 89 71 92 67 82 85
2008   94   115 138 112 114 105 123 94 109 117 136 127
2007   156   117 148 130 110 122 123 121 130 112 116 112
2006   158   210 207 208 212 188 160 134 138 151 161 147
2005   244   241 223 229 224 196 129 123 168 186 200 221
2004   283   258 326 309 303 236 225 230 217 250 289 221
2003   355   362 401 380 401 353 331 361 355 334 342 315
2002   243   293 371 225 317 345 276 279 373 286 310 304
2001   419   335 350 344 328 284 303 248 299 290 260 229
2000   303   493 609 485 427 337 314 384 498 498 405 292
1999 3









1

The list seems to have suffered a decline since the middle of 2009.

Uncleaned Ancient Coins seems to be going the same way, is the bottom dropping out of the market for this stuff? Or are the supplies of coins drying up as the more accessible sites are "hammered" into nothingness?

Message History


Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2012   8 39 24 12







2011   72 61 69 64 39 24 13 18 10 22 28 20
2010   61 123 64 88 77 82 104 104 26 47 31 13
2009   99 136 205 173 155 105 73 76 58 85 98 102
2008   75 121 79 157 183 105 119 123 156 39 184 186
2007   530 170 218 441 229 105 135 132 127 35 101 117
2006   145 173 211 104 93 103 73 122 59 59 291 327
2005   247 127 350 173 216 101 168 134 86 131 193 77
2004   107 115 448 680 696 490 580 559 226 146 172 186
2003   303 403 276 146 103 109 175 146 127 86 119 164
2002   153 162 232 220 309 155 164 156 218 169 192 205
2001



191 210 279 99 186 140 63 221

More interesting is what is happening to Moneta-L:

Message History


Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2012 327 271 415 69







2011 369 384 378 298 268 213 406 601 324 297 259 438
2010 306 368 254 368 425 135 217 135 344 172 269 247
2009 582 282 233 369 264 267 585 271 362 269 276 177
2008 518 332 361 266 225 179 435 457 331 445 392 390
2007 585 536 415 228 386 214 159 268 349 415 498 509
2006 788 913 528 495 393 619 493 357 523 385 426 327
2005 931 968 818 622 717 401 445 893 660 852 733 1013
2004 1099 914 901 597 794 776 638 877 758 871 776 1002
2003   1134 1220 1132 1042 1047 716 960 1192 1003 836 879 769
2002 1040 813 1034 1059 962 923 841 1104 1106 1111 1030 991
2001 980 974 1304 1195 1167 1000 1231 656 786 624 1250 997
2000 1318 1252 1219 1245 1262 1611 1655 1446 1511 1009 1004 752
1999


245 380 649 584 485 791 687 534 924
1998










1

From over a thousand posts a month to a few hundred, the decline setting in here in 2008. What is interesting is the fact that this is not accompanied by the founding of new lists and the drifting of contributors there. There seems to be a declining interest among collectors of ancients in talking about what they do (sadly the statistics for the Forum forum are not accessible).   ACM.

To return to ACM, the disclaimer of this Yahoo discussion group is interesting:
Caveat Emptor:  The coins advertised for sale or trade through this list are not verified in any way by the list moderators.  List moderators do not warranty them as authentic, nor do they offer any sort of guarantee.  The sellers and buyers who use this list have not had their identities verified, and the list moderators make  no warranty as to the veracity of their identities, or claims made about the items they offer for sale or trade.  Users of this email list are completely responsible for the results and consequences of any transaction made as a result of a posting made to this list.  Users of this email list agree that they have no claim against the list moderators for any outcome of any transaction made as a result of a message posted to this list. This list is not to be used for any activity which is or may be in violation of the law.
The first part of this is connected with that old coin collectors' bugbear, the authenticity of coins which 'come from nowhere in particular'. The last sentence alone is concerned with their legality. No mention is made of any kind of ethics, simply that buyers are responsible for their own decisions.  What does it mean "This list is not to be used for any activity which is or may be in violation of the law"? I suppose the two dealers running the list think they are covered from any kind of prosecution for advertising illegal goods. That would work in US law, I am not so sure it applies in UK law where the responsibilities of discussion list owners has in the past been interpreted differently (and the list is used and read in the United Kingdom). Merely saying "this list shall not be used" however does not absolve its owners from taking action against a member clearly breaking a law. Here though the old "no-questions-asked" dealing mechanism kicks in. A seller offers stuff that raises questions, but if nobody asks the question, nobody hears a disturbing answer.

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